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Ask Z Bone For 1998
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Please note that Z Bone is not a doctor, lawyer, psychologist, CPA, or auto mechanic and therefore all comments made by him are his own views and are to be used "as is". What he says is only true if it's true for you. As always, YMMV.


Doorman Salary?...
Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:33:14

Q:
What do the doormen or security usually make at the clubs... and is there any particular 'look' or 'dress' that increases that value?
Z:
The doormen usually make a low salary but bonded security can make from $6 to $18 per hour depending on experience and if they are state licensed for a gun. They also can get tipped by dancers and make extra money that way.

As for the uniform, like other jobs, the more professional you look, the more money you could demand. If you are talking about size, many clubs hire big guys to reduce the chances a customer will even think about "going for it".

Although working at a strip club can have it's fringe benefits, I should warn you that if you work at a topless or bikini club where they serve alcohol, expect a lot of trouble from drunk customers. The most common problem is people without IDs wanting to get in. If you don't let them in, they get irate and want to kick some ass.

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Dancers To Go, Please
Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:03:28

Q:
i was thinking of getting a dancer to dance at home. do you have any suggestions or pricing guidelines for this? and would you recommend a masseuse, escort, or dancer?
Z:
This depends on what you want. Do you want a dance or sex? If you get a masseuse or escort, they are not likely to know how to dance. Depending on the escort, it could cost a lot since you are normally expected to have sex with her. The rate for an escort would be the same if you have sex or not.

If you decide to get a dancer, read my FAQ under "What's the going rate for a private party?" for some pricing guidelines.

Frankly, there is no reason to have a dancer dance privately because you can get pretty much everything at TL or HT. And if you want sex, don't get a dancer because it can end up being very expensive for no reason.

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Let's Go Clubbin'
Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:13:11

Q:
How do you propose I suggest to my boyfriend that we go to a stripclub? any suggestions would be greatful
Z:
If you see a stripper on TV or movie or you 2 drive by a strip club, just say, "Hey! That looks kinda exciting. I'd like to check that out." I don't know your boyfriend but any of my guy friends (except one) would jump at the opportunity to go to a strip club with their girlfriend.

Since you are asking me this question, I assume that you think that he might possibly not like the idea. If he has never been to a strip club or is uncomfortable about the idea, it might be a hard sell. Maybe you two can start by watching a porno together first to get more comfortable with the idea of watching nude women together. Then move up to watching them live on stage.

Let me know what you end up doing and if it works.

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To Hard or Not too Hard.
Thu, 05 Nov 1998 05:41:11

Q:
Hi Z

I was wondering is it standard to have a hard on while getting a lap Or will she think that it is strange?
Z:
Standard and not strange.

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Dancer Has Club Problems
Sun, 01 Nov 1998 12:44:10

Q:
I have a friend who's a dancer in a club, and she's feeling pretty much abused by the management & wants to know where to report what she feels are illegal or unfair business practices.
Z:
First of all, please remember that I am not an attorney and that my comments are to be taken as just that.

This is a very serious question and I'll answer seriously. I've tried to help dancers before and the labor department is interested in these cases if you get to the right person there. However, in all cases, the dancer either flaked and stopped with the proceedings or got scared by the club into going away. There are excellent articles regarding this matter on the "Exotic Dancer's Alliance" which I have a link to under "Dancer Resources" in my links section.

Q:
She's upset about having to pay for drinks that the customers don't buy the girls, fines for being late (if she's not there, she's the one losing money, not the club; they get their dance & drink profits from the other dancers working the customers). Even when she's late she has to pay a minimum rent and a percentage on her dances. The girls suffer a lot of sexual harassment from the managers, and the ignorant girls let them get away with it.
Z:
Sexual harassment is illegal no matter what the employment status. I know of several cases that were filed with strip clubs but none that were actually taken all the way to court and won. If she has reliable witnesses (preferably non-dancer employees) she might have a chance. Otherwise, it's going to be her word against his. Not a good case for most lawyers to take.

As for the other matters, if she is an employee (e.g. she gets paid by the hour or salary), she has a case. If she is an independent contractor (which most dancers are in LA), her case is a lot harder to make.

Q:
She doesn't feel it's right that they require the dancers to tip the D.J. a lot, depending upon how many dances are on the board, and there are so many other 'hands out'. The manager & the D.J. told one ingenue to pay $40 to the DJ when she only took home about $200. There's a lot of minimum tips here and there for people who do little or nothing for for a girl.
Z:
Yes, that's a common practice by many clubs. The clubs know that they can scare dancers into almost anything by threatening to "fire" them. Often the managers are in on it but sometimes the owners do not know what is going on in their own clubs. As far as the legality of such actions, it's a gray area since independence contractors may have to pay fees in order to work. If it was made clear that the DJ had to be tipped out 20% of her gross tips when she was hired, that is what she would have to do to work there. If they are changing the tipout randomly, she could complain to the owner but it's doubtful if that would cause any changes.

Q:
My friend got fired from one club for not doing her dances dirty enough. The manager (a woman & dancer) was being out-banked by this girl, and was terminated from the club for no given reason. Are these clubs bound by 'wrongful termination' just like every other business in California?
Z:
Wrongful termination only applies to employees. If she is an independent contractor, they can simply tell the dancer that her services are no longer needed at the club. If this happened at a club where the dancers are paid to work, she may have a case. However, once again, it's very difficult to find an attorney that would take a case such as this. A witness to the event would be a requirement.

Q:
The aforementioned D.J.'s going out of his way to piss my friend off and make this work difficult. You've talked to enough dancers to know that their emotional fitness plays a big role in their ability to perform. This dickhead seems to think that he's running his own personal torture chamber.
Z:
If there are employees at a club that is making the dancers life miserable, she must first make the management aware of the situation. If no steps are taken, and she is an employee, if she documents her case and has witnesses, she could take it to court.

There are other ways that she could file complaints. If she does not care about continuing to work at the club and just wants to "get back" at them, she could call LAPD vice (nasty lap dances or drug usage), ABC vice (if it's a topless club), LAPD (underage dancers) the fire marshals (if it's too crowded), complain about smoking in the club, the labor board (they are trying to sue clubs for illegally maintaining "independent contractor" status for the dancers) and finally, the IRS.

The last 2 methods are long and drawn out procedures and the dancer must present herself well, speak intelligently and must look like she would make a good witness in court. Frankly, unless the dancer has had an epiphany to screw the club, it is not worth the time and effort for her. However, the IRS does pay a percentage for what they collect. She must have documents, witnesses and other ways of proving illegal activities or she will be laughed out of the meeting.

As I mentioned before, I have watched several dancers go through some of these procedures and now follow through. There is also one last factor to consider. Some of the clubs are owned or managed by criminal elements. It is not out of the question for some of them to want to eliminate dancers who are making trouble. This would be highly unusual and unlikely but not impossible. I have talked to the lawyers that represent owners of the clubs and it is well known that they are connected to organized crime syndicates. Even the lawyers are a little scared.

In summary, my suggestion for her would be to find another club that does not treat her in this way. If enough dancers do that, the "bad" clubs will not be in business. Unfortunately, too many dancers simply continue to be abused and so the club keeps on going on it's merry way.

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Eau de Strip Club
Tue, 06 Oct 1998 21:02:44

Q:
I have been to quite a few clubs out here in the LA/OC area, and they all have all seem to share the same scent. Its a kind of powdery sweet smell. Also, more often then not, the girls all seem to be wearing the same fragrance as one another. First off, what is that scent?!? And second, is it laced with pheronomes?
Z:
Heh, heh. I don't know what it is. It could be the carpet cleaner smell or if you are going to nude clubs, probably baby wipes. CK-1 used to be popular with dancers because it was uni-sexed and married customers could more easily explain it to their wives but I don't know what is currently popular. If you find out which one has pheromone in it, please let me know ASAP. :)
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Dance Music For a Male Dancer
Fri, 04 Sep 1998 19:28:51

Q:
I was wondering if the songs you list for dancing are specifically for women. I am male exotic dancer looking for some good, both sensously slow and upbeat stuff, music. I would appreciate any suggestions.
Z:
From what I've seen, male exotic dancers use only upbeat music and rarely dance to slow music. I think they like to keep the energy high at those clubs. Most of the upbeat music I am familiar with are for female dancers (e.g. Pussy Control, We Want Some Pussy), but anything with a heavy beat would probably be good. I don't know your dancing style so I'm not sure if you want to dance to R&B, Techno, Rap, Alternative, or Rock.

Here are a few suggestions you might checkout: For R&B:
Genuwine "Pony", Rick James "Super Freak", Zapp & Roger "More Bounce to the Ounce", Quad City DJs "C'mon N' Ride It".

Techno:
Chemical Brothers "Block Rockin Beats", Crystal Method "Busy Child", Prodigy "Smack My Bitch Up".

Rap:
2Pac "California Love", Coolio "1, 2, 3, 4", LL Cool J "Goin' Back 2 Cali", Notorious BIG "Hypnotize".

Alternative, Rock, Metal:
Smash Mouth "Walking on the Sun", Chumbawamba "Tubthumping", Garbage "Push It", Marylin Manson "The Beautiful People", Nine Inch Nails "Closer", Metallica "Enter Sandman" (old but still good), Pantera "I'm Broken", Rage Against the Machine "Killing in the Name", Revolting Cocks "Da Ya Think I'm Sexy", White Zombie "More Human Than Human" (still good).

Those are some of my suggestions for upbeat music. My taste may be very different from yours but those songs are commonly used by female dancers.

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Sex Clubs
Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:58:01

Q:
HAVE YOU HEARD OF ANY CLUBS ON THE WEST COAST WHERE A COUPLE COULD GO TO SEE BI SEXUAL ACTION BOTH MEN AND WOMEN AS WELL AS GROUP ACTION. NOT LOOKING TO PARTICIPATE JUST WANT TO WATCH...
Z:
Well, you can go to Mitchell Brother's O'Farrell Theater in San Francisco. I have a review on my website under "Out of Town Reviews". They do girl/girl shows at your table with toys, etc.

If you want to see men and women, you will have to go to a place like Edgewater (a clothing optional hotel). Their website is at:

http://www.efaxinc.com/~edgewater/

There are other SF couples clubs where you can watch and not participate. You can find them via the SF version of Yahoo.

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To GQ or Not To GQ
Wed, 24 Jun 1998 00:12:30

Q:
O.K., i'm not the elephant man, but i am very self conscious about my looks. What are the attitudes of the dancers when it comes to lap dancing for someone that looks like they can't get any? any encouragements?
Z:
Other than bad smell (e.g. bad breath or B.O.), the average dancer does not care what you look like as long as you have a big bulge in your pants. Of course, I'm talking about your wallet. There are a few dancers that may ignore certain customers for various unknown reasons. However, money talks and bullsh*t walks.

Your personality would more likely determine how the dancers act towards you. They meet a lot of jerks at clubs and so if you are nice, they will like that. There used to be a well known customer that was a burn victim and his entire body was heavily scared and I did not see one dancer reject him.

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To Topless or Bikini
Wed, 17 Jun 1998 04:56:40

Q:
I read your section, "How Do I Become a Dancer?", and your reviews of the San Diego clubs, and I found them very informative. I am considering Pacers at this time but I am still not so sure if I want to take my top off! Generally what do you think of bikini bars? I am afraid I will not be making as much money as I would in a topless bar. On an average, how much money do bikini dancers make (as opposed to topless dancers)?
Z:
Generally speaking, the more you take off, the more you will make. There are a lot of variables but that would be a rule of thumb. The average bikini dancer makes $50-$250 and the average topless dancer makes $100-$300. Again, this will depend greatly on the dancer, the club and other factors.

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Great Clubs 'R' Us
Mon, 08 Jun 1998 19:17:27

Q:
I was wondering what a "great" club would look/be like to you? Just some features you would like club owners to offer. What would you like to see the girls do or say?
Z:
I would like to see the girls take their clothes off and say, "Hi Z Bone!". :)

All kidding aside, I don't think there is a magic bullet for strip clubs. I like different clubs and different dancers for different reasons. Of course, I tend to be attracted to a particular type of dancer. However, that does not mean I can't enjoy myself watching other types on stage. I like upscale clubs as well as sleazy ones. Also, what I like depends on my mood. If I want to sleaze out, I like the ones that offer good nasty lap dances. If I want to take a business associate for a drink, I go to an upscale topless w/ alcohol club where we can sit and talk. It all depends on the situation.

If you read my Dancer of the Month section, you'll see that I like various types of dancers. I like beautiful ones, nasty ones, smart ones, etc.

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Closer the Better
Thu, 04 Jun 1998 11:56:11

Q:
Is there *any* other club in S. California with the up-close-lookie-lookie style of the Carolina Theater near LAX? I would love to find some more . . .
Z:
I assume you are talking about the private dances. I would have to say that since the other clubs concentrate on lap dances, there are no other clubs that have the close-up views of the Century Theater.

As for stage dances, both the Star Strip and Star Strip Too have close-up dances on stage because the stage is so small.

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Dating Dancers
Sun, 31 May 1998 01:14:44

Q:
...I asked her for her phone number and she said that she normally doesn't give it out. But we talked for quite a while after the lap dance and she was sure friendly. Do you think that I should visit her again and ask again after talking with her some more? Or would I just be wasting my time?

What kind of guys are these beautiful dancers looking for, for friends? Is it money, security, looks, power, etc?
Z:
Nothing stopping you from asking. But think about how many others are doing the same thing. Most dancers are pretty tired of that stuff.

As for what they are looking for, it depends on the dancer but all of the above doesn't hurt. Many have boyfriends, others are married, others are single mothers, and others are just single. As in other occupations, the good lookers usually have a waiting list and they are picky. The ones who are not with somebody are either scammers, hustlers or a little too screwed up in the head to maintain a relationship. Those are generalizations and there are many exceptions. If you just want sex, that's a lot easier to get. If you want a relationship, you'd better ask yourself if that's what you really want. Then, ask again.

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Un-Regular
Thu, 28 May 1998 19:38:30

Q:
How do you smoothly "unbecome" a dancer's regular in a club you want to continue frequenting? Illustration: I'm at Tropical Lei once a month and many times enjoyed the company and laps of a particular dancer there. So now, she tries to dominate me everytime I show-up, and at the same time, is taking me for granted on the couch - giving me lower mileage than previously. I'm still fond of her so I don't want to just say no or hurt her feelings - but you know TL can be an expensive proposition, and I don't want to invest any of it in her anymore. What to do?
Z:
This is an excellent question. I have been in that situation several times. I've even had situations where I went to another club to avoid the dancer and she moved to the new club and I was in the same situation once again. Generally speaking, there is no real graceful way of unbecoming a dancer's tipper. At a lap club (e.g. TL), I would transition to doing less dances with her and more and more with others or another specific dancer. I've had times when I stopped lapping with the dancer completely and started with a new dancer. In this case, the "old" dancer got the message but if I ever got to the club when my "new" dancer wasn't there yet or had left, the "old" dancer would pounce on me. I've tried other methods like still talking to her but not getting dances, tipping her on stage but not laps, etc. Sometimes it works OK, other times it still costs money.
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Sex on Stage
Wed, 27 May 1998 20:34:34

Q:
Can I have sex on the stage?
Z:
No.
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Kinky Wife Wants to Dance
Thu, 21 May 1998 22:17:54

Q:
I am a kinky wife who would love to do a show for my husband at a legit club. Have you ever heard of a club "hiring" a girl for just one show? I would be happy to pay the club for the opportunity. I am very cute and not shy at all. Let me know if I stand a chance.
Z:
I suggest you enter the dance contest at one of the clubs. Unless you know the management at a club, they will not let you dance for one set. If you just want to do a lap dance for your husband, you might get away with it at a large club where you may not be noticed. You could do a lap dance right at your seats if you are discreet.
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4 Stars = Sex?
Sat, 16 May 1998 00:51:18

Q:
BY FOUR STARS YOU MEAN ANYTHING GOES LIKE THE DANCER COULD BE ASKED FOR SEX AND IT COULD BE DO FOR THE RIGHT PRICE.
Z:
No.
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Dancer Flakes on Customer
Sun, 19 Apr 1998 02:49:11

Q:
Some time back, I visited a "gentlemen's club" (topless) in Las Vegas and I spent some VIP time with a particularly beautiful and sweet dancer who I spent a whole lot of time and cash on. To my surprise, she wanted to exchange phone numbers with me. I didn't think much of it since I thought it was all contrived anyway. I never intended to call her or anything. The next day, she called me just to talk. That gesture took me by surprise. So for over the next month or so we would call each other on occasion, but always just to chat and get to know one another (never sexual). I even sent her flowers since she also gave me her address. Anyway, we finally agreed to meet face to face again. I made an elaborate arrangement to meet her, and to make a long story short, she flaked. No word since. I haven't tried to contact her to respect her privacy since her silence suggests that that is what she wants.

Was she looking for a sugar daddy but changed her mind? Was she trying to make a "regular" out of me? Did she really want to find a wealthy man to marry and quit her job? I know it's hard for you to say since there are still many facts missing, but I was just wondering what your thoughts are based on the facts presented here. Thanks Z-bone.
Z:
Like you said, it's hard for me to judge the situation based on just the facts as you present them. If you have included all of the important aspects, I would have to say that she was probably looking for at least a good tipper that would come and tip her at her club again. She probably intended on seeing you at the time that you made the arrangement with her, then either changed her mind or something came up. Dancers are flaky. I've had dancers flake so bad that I never talked to them again. They will do things that normal people will never do. If you want to read some examples, read my "Rants and Rave" section from 1995? or 1996? I forget where it is.

As far as if she wanted a sugar daddy, that's possible. The other alternatives you listed are also possible. More than likely, she got cold feet. Sounds like she probably liked you, then thought about it, then got cold feet. Happens.

Over the years, I've learned not to make any plans around a dancer. I try to minimize the problems and cost to me by waiting until the last minute to make any arrangements. If I am flying, I will buy the tickets at the last minute. It's more expensive but you can't change the cheap tickets and that's what will happen. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule. I know dancers who are very responsible, have kids, take them to school, etc. But most of them I know are about as flaky as a person can be. If they just show up 2 hours late, I think they are doing good. :) Most will not show up at all. Many will not even bother to call. Some will blame it on you. A few will tell lies to other dancers to make them hate you. Just part of the culture.

My rule of thumb: If you sleep with pigs, you wake up with mud on your face.

Good luck and be careful. I've been there and back, and I have scars to show for it.

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New Face Wants to Try Stripping
Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:08:19

Q:
I am a CSUN student who has just lost her job, and I need money much sooner than later to pay my bills. I have some resumes out, but in the meantime, I need to make ends meet. I was considering dancing at a strip club, as I have a nice face and body (I am in a sorority at my college), but trying to decide where to go to find employment is difficult. I do not wish to strip in the San Fernando Valley (especially at Bob's Classy Lady - many of my guy friends go there and the time I did go with them, the girls gave me nasty looks.) What higher-class L.A. clubs do you think would be receptive to a new face?
Z:
There will always be some dancers that will give the new dancers a hard time. Some clubs are notorious for this type of attitude. Normally, if you stand your ground, you will eventually be accepted, provided you're not a b*tch to them. However, at some clubs, no matter what you do, they will try to drive you out. The smaller the club, the more likely it might be clique-ish, with some notable exceptions.

You might give 4 Play in West LA a try since they are not too close to the valley, and the owner keeps a close eye on the club to make sure things are running smoothly. Report back and tell me how you're doing.

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Humdingers
Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:38:44

Q:
what do u think of the humdingers?
Z:
And how about those umpa-lumpas?
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Aggressive Solicitation
Sat, 4 Apr 1998 02:18:08

Q:
A dancer approaches you for a private dance and you said no thanks (with a smile). But she is persistent and demands to know why you're not interested. What would be a polite way to deal with the situation?
Z:
Very good question. I thought I had this on my FAQ but somehow I forgot to put it there.

I've been in the exact same situation many times. I've tried different tactics with different results. I've told the dancer that I don't get lap dances. Later, I ended up getting a dance from another dancer. This turned out to be a really bad technique because the first dancer came back to me and called me a liar.

In the few times when the dancer was not only being a pest but had an attitude to go along with it, I bluntly told her she was not attractive to me. The problem with this is that she might go to the dressing room and give you a bad rep before you talk to any other dancer.

I've also tried the less blunt but more aggressive "no" with some sugar on it, "No thanks. I appreciate you asking but I really don't want a dance." with extra emphasis on the "really". This usually works but I've had dancers come back and joke around with, "Are you *really* sure?"

If the same girl keeps coming back, sometimes I even chuckle a little and smile. Sometimes, that will give her the clue that I think it's getting ridiculous. Some dancers NEVER get the hint or they just forget who they asked and keep asking like a robot.

The bottom line here is: there's no sure fire way without being mean or blunt. Personally, I just keep saying "no" with a smile (like you) hoping she gets the message. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

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Editorial Control
Wed, 18 Mar 1998 18:45:20

Q:
Z, I was curious how long it took before the vice detectives "discovered" your site and how you went about deciding how much information to provide in your reviews.

I moderate "http://www.discussionontheweb.com/sensualmassage/" and after hearing about the infiltration on the Dallas and Phoenix mailing lists by vice agents, am concerned just how much information I should allow in the "Reviews" section on my site.

You should give this some additional thought for your own site too, now that you have put up a bulletin board. People who post will not have the same level of discretion you have, and that can get the favorites (who receive a lot of comments) in trouble.
Z:
Although I don't report any illegal activities in my reviews, I'm sure the vice cops probably look on the Internet and my website for hints.

Funny you brought this up because I just had to edit one of the posts last night. I run a program each night that shows me all the new posts and if there is something in there that I feel may cause problems for somebody, I will edit that portion out in the same way that I do with email that I post on my site. I know some people will consider this censorship but they can post on a NG (e.g. assc) if they don't like it.

I don't want my BBS to become a free for all like TUSCL. I'm going to keep a close eye on the posts there.

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Who is Z Bone?
Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:20:40

Q:
I"m a dancer who just moved to the SF area from Colorado. I had a couple of questions to ask you. I know this may be none of my business but I have been reading this site for a while (which I enjoy), and I was wondering who you are? I don't know if it is on purpose or if I am missing something. Just curious. Also since you seem to know alot of dancers down there, how does one meet you?
Z:
The purpose of being anonymous is so that I can enter a club and review the club and dancers without being recognized. I don't want the managers or dancers to make special provisions because I am there. As for meeting me, you may already have met me. Except for ASSCons, I rarely identify myself as Z Bone.
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Nasty Valentine For Boyfriend
Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:51:01

Q:
I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE MY BOYFRIEND CLUB HOPPING ON VALENTINES DAY AND I WOULD LIKE YOUR OPINION OF WHICH ONES WOULD BE THE BEST AND WHICH WE WILL BOTH WILL ENJOY. I SAW THE FAQ BUT I CAN GO A LITTLE NASTIER THAN THAT. THIS IS A SURPRIZE FOR HIM AND I WANT A LAP DANCE TOO. IN LA AND/OR ORANGE COUNTY.
Z:
Well, if $ is no object, in order of nastiness, the list would be Ecstasy (private booth), Lacy Street Cabaret (booth but open to club), Star Strip Too (VIP room but floaters can see), Hawaii Theatre (open to club), Tropical Lei(open to club), Deja Vu (Ontario)(private booth), and a few others. Ecstasy has really good lookers but their bed dances are $50 per song. Lacy Street has nude laps for $40, SS2 has bikini laps for $30, TL has topless laps for $20, DJV has bikini(?) laps for $20.

Since Valentine's day is on Saturday this year, expect Ecstasy and TL to be VERY crowded if you go late (e.g. 10pm or later). When I say very crowded, I mean stand and wait in line for 30-60 minutes. I'm not kidding.

If you really want to give him a big surprise, visit the club BEFORE Valentines without him and try to meet a dancer that will be working on Saturday. That way, when you go there with your BF, you will already be "friendly" with the dancer and you'll both get some hot dances.

My guess is that if you go to one of the clubs with a private booth and all 3 of you go in there, a lot might happen if you get the right "bi" girl. Selecting the right girl will be harder to do in a short period than selecting the right club. I suggest you see if any dancers come to you specifically because you are a couple and they want to dance for you. I've noticed that Ecstasy is not a really good place for bi dances. SS2 and TL are good for bi dances.

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